CRIM...Again

We got a Hacienda property tax bill. This meant I had to go to CRIM, AGAIN, to get the real amount of our taxes documented. To make a long story short, we bought our house and weren't able to move here for 10 months so we owed some tax. Usually in Puerto Rico you are exempt on your first house if you live in it up to a certain amount of money. We have two acres and our exemption isn't the entire property, but pretty close to it. We knew we owed something when we got here but not the $1000s they initially said we owed.

The first visit to CRIM was a treat since we didn't speak Spanish, didn't know what papers we were supposed to have (like social security cards, birth certificates etc etc), and didn't really know what to ask other than "how much do we owe." Seems like a simple question, but this is Puerto Rico. We were told they would have to "investigate," and not to pay the bill. We didn't and were surprised to get another bill for a different amount that still didn't seem right.

Speed forward another year...in March Jeff had to go to CRIM for paperwork saying we didn't owe anything so we could get the solar panel tax credit. He settled up with them because they supposedly sent someone out to investigate (we never saw them). In May (two months later, this year) we get a CRIM bill for around $1000. This comes and we don't pay because we figure the computer hasn't caught up with the investigator. Now it is July and I am working by the gate and a truck comes into the driveway with another CRIM investigator. I show him there is only one house, show him the perimeter and he tells me the $149 Jeff paid in March was too much and our tax should be about 23 dollars a year. Goody, that is less...good news. I have his name, phone number, hours, had him write down stuff. When we get another $1000 bill and the Hacienda bill for $110 I have to go in.

So today was the day. NEVER go places in the morning - all the old people go and spend the day waiting. I slid in before 2 and waited in a line to tell them what I needed (in my best Spanish - "mi cuenta is incorrecto y porque este is incorrecto my Hacienda cuenta is incorrecto.") He understood as I pointed out several different amounts on several different bills that didn't agree and gave them the name and info I had the "investigator" write down while he "visita mi finca."

Out comes a familiar face - the woman who helped resolve stuff with Jeff. After 30 or more minutes we agree they calculated the information incorrectly and we owe $14.80 a YEAR! Amazing! They had the exemption figured out wrong just like the investigator said. Best of all - and this wouldn't happen in the States - when I get a bill I need to call her extension, give her the secret number she wrote down for me and she will credit me and I don't have to go there! That means we won't have to pay our $14.80 for around 10 years! I won't have to go there again! Unfortunately I had to pay $2 for a stamp (what is with the stamp thing anyway) and go downstairs to Hacienda.

Hacienda was not quite as nice. I know it is my problem that I am not well versed in Spanish. I know enough to do most things, follow a lot of a conversation, and I try my best without hesitation - but I don't know the specific words when dealing with CRIM, making doctor appointments, lab stuff and specific specialty words. I explain the problem (the exoneration number changed and this affects the Hacienda bill in my favor). She gives me a phone number for the San Juan office for "customer help" and if you live here you know there IS NO SERVICE. I ask if they speak English - "yes" she says. I whip out my phone without losing my place in line and call it and don't hear any English or anything about "incorrecto cuenta," "pagar cuenta" or anything remotely sounding like my problem (which is what exactly?). I hand it to her and she does press the right number, gets to the right person and gets my info in the system supposedly. I am told to come back in a week to see if they changed it.

My plan is to wait a week, call my CRIM contact who is sending the info for updating tonight (this is theory of course), ask her to call downstairs to Hacienda to check and not go in until it is in the computer that my bill for Hacienda is officially $8.08 (according to the CRIM gal who called San Juan with my information before I went downstairs). Then I will go in, and pay for the year - $8.08 is a semester, and try to pay for the second year. So all this work they do - investigators to the house, hours with us on 5 different visits, and we owe $14.80 a year in property taxes and $8.08 for Hacienda. How much did this cost the government? How can there even be roads here if this is how things work? I was very pleased that we will actually get the overpayment (as small as it seems) as a credit - in the States that just doesn't happen.

In Washington we were taxed over a $1000 a year on an un buildable lot (our yard) before I caught the error. When I caught it I had to find comparable properties, get letters from planning departments for the city and other junk and go to court to settle it. Never got the money back, and two days before court got a certified letter asking us to pay more than we should but a lot less than the $1000 to settle. We did, but that money (a lot) was gone forever. So despite the disorganization here it is at least fair...

Ah, and it only took a few hours! A good day in Puerto Rico

Solar Electrical Power and PR Tax Credits

I recently found out that the Puerto Rico government enacted a law (Ley 248). This has the potential of providing 75% in tax credits for the installation of solar Photovoltaics. This sounds great!
But I don't really have faith in the government here since a co-worker got screwed out of $25,000 when she bought her new home last month. She was approved for the $25,000 government handout and went through the process of buying her home. The process took about a couple of weeks too long because the government ran out of money just before she was to close on the house. So I did some research and tried to learn all I could but the new law is in Spanish and it is important to exactly know all the details. Then I found out that two of my co-workers were taking the classes to be certified for solar installations. I started talking to them and started to get serious. I reviewed all their handouts from the class and did a lot of research on the web. I now have a handle on all of the technical stuff (its easy but it does get involved with details)
The government process however is as you would expect here and you only have 60 days to do the install after they set aside money for you. It's not the same process as it was for buying a home. Before you buy your equipment you give them an estimate and your design and they give you a certificate that sets the money aside for you.

We plan on going off the grid. You need to click on the schematic to see the details of the design. We don't use air conditioners. We use about 6KWH/day now. I'll have to switch the SCUBA compressor over to a 8HP gas engine. The system will be off grid but can be connected to the grid at a later date if we chose.
I have put a lot of work into this but haven't spent any money yet. It could still fall apart and not happen but things are moving along so it should happen.

I was told last week that the money set aside at the 75% rate was gone and now they are using the 50% money. We will still do it with 50% if we have to but a few other people told me today that they still have 75% money. We wont know until we submit the designs and paper work. The other hard part is finding a good price on the equipment locally. I can buy it off the Internet but I don't like buying big fragile expensive items on-line!

CRIM is Crappy...Another Tale of Mystery

Well we opened some mail and got a bill from CRIM for $450 for taxes. We thought we took care of this back in February in Mayaguez. To make a long long story shorter we bought our house in December 2007, it closed May 2007 and we moved here in October 2007. When we got here we went to Oriental Mortgage to tell them we were here permanently and they sent us to CRIM to get the property tax exemption. They sent us to the Mayaguez office (we /they didn't know there was an office in San German) and we went, bumbled through all the paperwork, got the stamps and did all the other mysterious things you need to do.

Today we took all the CRIM crap (papers with stamps and dates and exemption form certified etc) to the San German office to find out how we could be "exempt" AND owe all on the same paper! Here is the story we got: We went in February. To be exempt we had to have gone before December 31, 2007. We were here, but didn't know this and thought things would be prorated...there is kind of a language problem and some trouble figuring out how all things work (or don't) here. No no, we are stuck owing for this half year and the next (the papers Mayaguez did were for exemption for 2009 -2010). They collect taxes "ahead" of time they say so we don't really know if what we owe is for when we WEREN'T here or when we were here.

What we were told we could try to do is: Go to "triple A" (no this isn't the travel map place, it is the water authority) and ask for the "certificacion de servicio". Go to the power authority and ask for a "certificacion de servicio," sign an affidavit stating when we moved here permanently and that we do not own any other property any other place, go back to Mayaguez and wait for days to see someone who may or may not get the exemption thing correct anyway all the while accruing interest on something we don't want to pay because then we would never see any of it back!

So we went to the water place and in under 10 minutes got the certificacion de servicio showing when we started water service. I asked if we needed any "stamps" or seals or signatures or anything and supposedly we don't (we shall see). We went to the power place and it was the same thing - under 10 minutes (helpful hint is to go 15 minutes before closing?). Our diving friend David is a lawyer and hopefully we can pay him to whip up this affidavit thing and then spin the wheel of fortune at CRIM in the next couple weeks and pay up or have it fixed!

So as I am ranting I am thinking back to similar CRAP regarding property taxes in Duvall WA that weren't $450, they were over $3000 a year. When we bought our house there we had our house and the 3 lots it was on and two extra lots next door (my garden) on a separate tax number. We moved into the house in April (tax time) and tax notifications of course didn't make it to us....we had escrow and a mortgage (you figure they take care of this) and you figure these extra two lots have been there and been taxed for many years prior to us. Well the next year, at tax time I am looking at what we are paying for our "garden" and it just doesn't look right. I look at the previous year and it was the same - still looked high. After inquiring with the County I figured out that we were charged as if these lots were "build able." They weren't. So guess what - I had to find "comparables" in the city (our extra lots were not really comparable in size and zoning to much else in town), get a letter from the city planning commission saying the lot was not build able, I had to set up a court date to plead my case in front of the county to get the $ reduced. So I go though all the stuff thoughtfully, have a court date and everything and then the county decides to cut the $ amount to a reasonable (but not as low as it was) number if I sign away rights to argue it some more - a couple days before the court date! So YES I got the tax burden reduced BUT did we get reimbursed for the unlawful, incorrect amount we paid previously? Of course NOT. So I am expecting this could be the same. Wouldn't surprise me a bit but we will give it a go!

As a side note, When we decided to move here we sold our "yard" as a build able lot (rules changed) and that is what helped us get here! So in the end all the irritations work out I suppose...

But if you own something here...get your CRIM stuff organized! The banks aren't "responsible" according to CRIM. If it is your only house anywhere and you live in it you do not pay taxes. If you bought it and moved here later they will get you. Go to CRIM.

CRIM Makes Me Cringe. Trip 1

Personally I thought 5 trips to CESCO was excessive. Today we went to CRIM so we could fill out a piece of paper so we don't have to pay property tax. Here in PR you don't have to pay property tax on your first house but you need to fill out a form to take advantage of the exclusion. We got there at 11:45AM. We took a number (74). They were serving number 35 and the small dirty room was full of people. No one was at the only window. They were out to lunch until 1pm. We left. We went to our mortgage company to see if they could help. They told us what we needed CRIM to do. It's not the $13 a YEAR we will save in not having to pay our property taxes that drives us to CRIM. It's the problem that the tax department doesn't recognize that we own the house until we get the paperwork to show our name. It could be a real problem if we ever sell the house.So we will try again in the middle of the week early in the morning. We were told this is a good time to go.